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Post by skywords on Jan 30, 2009 11:05:52 GMT -5
Arguments on both sides can be made. One if we do the bail outs some say we are spiraling into socialism. On the other side if we don't we will spiral into certain doom. FDR brought us into a somewhat working economy with his new deal but it never really worked until the big war came along. God help us if that is the only thing that can bring prosperity back.
My opinion is protectionism is the only answer. No more made in China.
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MikeH
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Post by MikeH on Feb 3, 2009 8:45:18 GMT -5
But even his Secretary of the Treasury said it didn't work, even with all the money that was poured into it. Obama's response to this is that FDR didn't spend enough money.
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blue
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Post by blue on Feb 3, 2009 18:58:44 GMT -5
By not working, I suppose it depends on your expectations and perspective. My dad came of age just as Wall Street crashed. He said things were better toward the end of the thirties. A farmer could make a hardscrabble living and there were a few jobs available, two things that were not true in the early thirties.
But a larger question is, "How can you tell it did or did not work?" Things were going deeper and deeper into the toilet. The situation leveled off and reversed itself, however slightly. That is inarguable, but can anyone know why? We do know two things. Hoover was a master of doing nothing, the results were a disaster. Roosevelt did something, the results were good but way less than expected.
I heard a couple of idiots on the tube this morning. They were postulating the expected results of doing nothing and letting the unemployment figure go to 10% for a few years vs. going into debt a few more trillion dollars. The part I missed is why they expect unemployment to level off at 10% and why it would go down after a few years.
I think I missed something. I usually do.
Bill
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Post by skywords on Feb 5, 2009 11:28:30 GMT -5
I know one thing that did not work, Tax breaks for the wealthy. I can't speak for the rest of you but I am scared.
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blue
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Post by blue on Feb 5, 2009 14:53:48 GMT -5
Yes, the tax thing is confusing to me. If tax cuts are the solution, why did we have this meltdown? So we lower taxes again, have another recovery, another meltdown followed by tax cuts, where does this lead us? Sounds like another race to the basement.
Reminds me of the old question which no one answers, "How much do you have to lower taxes in order to balance the budget?"
Bill
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Post by skywords on Feb 7, 2009 7:24:13 GMT -5
Yes, the tax thing is confusing to me. If tax cuts are the solution, why did we have this meltdown? So we lower taxes again, have another recovery, another meltdown followed by tax cuts, where does this lead us? Sounds like another race to the basement. Reminds me of the old question which no one answers, "How much do you have to lower taxes in order to balance the budget?" Bill Bill I don't what the answer is other than we need to build our own stuff instead of letting the Chinese do it. This guy has it figured. www.blimptv.net/Well it's 5:22 am and I am meeting a bunch of Sunbeamers at Micky dees and we are caravanning to Phoenix raceway today. |
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Post by Jim E on Feb 16, 2009 10:32:20 GMT -5
The china thing killed us and as long as we keep it up we will never get right.
The thing that ended my working career is the stupid merger line of thought.... where the suits have no thought for the people that do the day to day work just how to make a deal that pays them. They took two perfectly sound companys that had folks working and paying thier bills and totally f**ked them both up with massive debt load and laid off over half the work force.
My guess is being I am almost 50 I will never work a "good" job again, bail out or no bail out. So right now I am watching and trying to figure out where the bail money is going to see if I can get in on a piece of it. Most likle though I will be in Iraq this time next year flipping burgers in the green zone.
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Post by v6jose on Feb 24, 2009 19:05:25 GMT -5
And protectionism will kill out export business, because others will retaliate, which will severly limit our ability to sell our products overseas. Protectionism hurts trade, which is what we need if we are going to get out of this mess. We need to sell as much as we can to other countries as we can. If you think other countries won´t retaliate, just try passing protectionism legislation.
If you don´t want Chinese products, don´t buy from those who sell them. Wal-Mart, Target, etc. etc. etc. I don´t buy from them, even though I pay a little more, but I am buying U.S. made. the problem is that we like cheap prices and we sacrifice our principles for a few dollars. Lets be honest; if we buy Chinese to save money, we can´t really complain about them selling their junk to us. It takes a bit of work to avoid Chinese, but I think it is worth it.
Jose
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blue
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Post by blue on Feb 25, 2009 11:53:12 GMT -5
Jose, I'd like to agree with you. Honestly. But its gotten to the point we are presented with a choice. Buy name brand, high priced stuff made in China, or low priced, store brand stuff made in China.
At least those are the choices here in Connersville. Maybe other parts of the country are different.
What we really need is the end to tax breaks that are given to those taking the manufacturing of country.
Bill
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Post by Jim E on Feb 26, 2009 10:34:19 GMT -5
Avoiding china made products is not posible we are even importing food from china.
I have mentioned this before but it freaks me out so bad I have to say it again.... there is no longer a TV set made in the US. In the land of couch potatoes! we invented sitting on ass watching TV most of us own at least two sets.
Tax breaks for the wealthy.... the line is this creats jobs because they have the money to make jobs. Well all I got to say is that did not work out so well for me. While I do not know it for a fact my guess is in my situation the company merger involved some tax benifits to the company. These tax breaks resulted in about 400 working tax payers going on unemplyoment.
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blue
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Post by blue on Feb 26, 2009 19:38:55 GMT -5
Hey, Jim, how about tax breaks for the small business? I think you tell business owners in Connersville they would not have to pay any taxes for the next 5 years and I don't think any of them would make a move to take advantage of it. Their too busy hanging on to even think about growing or making further investments.
I think the con men are out. Visteron left town a year ago, leaving a huge empty facility. There was a guy in town selling the idea he would buy the building, ship alcohol in from Iowa, mix it with gasoline (from Texas?) and ship E85 to California. Plan #2 is to set up an operation to compress and refrigerate natural gas (from Texas) into liquid natural gas and ship IT to, of course, California. Plan #3 is to make liquid natural gas rail tankers. Plan 3 is the only one of the bunch that makes any economic sense.
Speaking of small business, we were in Sam's (trip to the big city) yesterday afternoon. There were more checkouts than customers, by a wide margin. I told our cashier I had never seen it so dead in there, she said it was terrible, she had to work until 9:00 and if things did not pick up she was going to go out of her friggin mind. Maybe it was just a Wednesday afternoon.
Bill
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Post by Jim E on Feb 27, 2009 10:38:30 GMT -5
Small buisness tax breaks.... yeah way to late for that to help IMO. It is and has been to the point for a long time that they all 1099 or are down to one man bands.
There is nothing going on out there the machine shops are not gettting any work, folksare running them as they are or parking them. Use to see a lot of Mack head work very steady flow not now so those trucks are either broken or not needed or both.
My friend with the resto shop use to get a lot of service and fiddly repair. Oil changes, brake jobs, AC work and goofy stuff the dealer does not want to do or will not do. Not anymore if not for a couple restos that have been in for a long while he would be just as well to stay home.
I would like to paint out the inside of my house... not going to happen, it will just have to run as it is or go up on blocks.
Yeah the old whacky idea con men are done for a while, the ones who want to put together big borrowed money deals and skim the cream and run. But just you wait with all this bail money there are going to be some smart apples that get a cut...
Sam Club may be in the dumper but Walmart is on top the world right now. You want to see crazy go to wally world on the 3rd of the month....
How about instead of bailing these jokers we just nationalize medicine, education and screw the auto makers build a rail system. GM you want to live the only way you get money is to suplly things for our new rail system.
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Post by skywords on Feb 28, 2009 0:16:45 GMT -5
Small buisness tax breaks.... yeah way to late for that to help IMO. It is and has been to the point for a long time that they all 1099 or are down to one man bands. There is nothing going on out there the machine shops are not gettting any work, folksare running them as they are or parking them. Use to see a lot of Mack head work very steady flow not now so those trucks are either broken or not needed or both. My friend with the resto shop use to get a lot of service and fiddly repair. Oil changes, brake jobs, AC work and goofy stuff the dealer does not want to do or will not do. Not anymore if not for a couple restos that have been in for a long while he would be just as well to stay home. I would like to paint out the inside of my house... not going to happen, it will just have to run as it is or go up on blocks. Yeah the old whacky idea con men are done for a while, the ones who want to put together big borrowed money deals and skim the cream and run. But just you wait with all this bail money there are going to be some smart apples that get a cut... Sam Club may be in the dumper but Walmart is on top the world right now. You want to see crazy go to wally world on the 3rd of the month.... How about instead of bailing these jokers we just nationalize medicine, education and screw the auto makers build a rail system. GM you want to live the only way you get money is to suplly things for our new rail system. Jim It's dog eat dog out there. I have been using only 1099 for some time now. I did the fuka fica f**ka for way to long and will never do it again. My guys work part time and do other work and are LLC companies of their own. No matter how cheap we work anymore the customers complain about the money. I removed all six cylinders on a Lycoming O-435 on a Stinson L-5. Honed the bores, lapped the valves and reinstalled all six for 2K cry cry cry. The shop next door would not touch the job for less than 3K and would not even consider honing and lapping valves. They would make you buy overhauled cylinders even if they are low time. I just wish the media would be a little more up beat and stop scaring the public. We need consumer confidence right now not panic. |
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Post by Jim E on Mar 6, 2009 15:37:12 GMT -5
We are in such a mess is there anyway to really fix this? throw money at it don't throw money I am not sure it makes a difference.
My GFs son said something last evening that really made sense to me and he is just a kid. Obama is now paying back all the poor folks who donated dollars to his run for office. I had to think about it for a minute but it does make sense.
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