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Post by lgurley on Nov 5, 2008 8:06:02 GMT -5
The results of this election turned out as I had expected although not as I would have desired. It would appear that I have been going through life with blinders on my left side.
I am unable to understand the logic of the liberal political movement. It is not that I disagree but, that I can not even understand how a person of reasonable intelligence could have the beliefs of the left. I really have tried.
For the next four years there is nothing that I can do except vote for members of congress. By the time for the next presidential election I will be 67 years old and at that time all I intend to do is pray for the future of my children and grandchildren. I can't see what affect I can have on future politics and I am really frightened about the future of the economy and of the ability to keep private business out of the hands of government.
I am sure my views have angered or offended some of you and for that I apologize.
I wish all of you the best in the years ahead and I sincerely hope that my views have been wrong.
This will be my last post here because I don't need to make enemies or lose friends over my opinions if my opinions won't help anything.
Please accept my apology for the poor way I presented my opinion.
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Post by Jim E on Nov 5, 2008 9:22:54 GMT -5
Not sure about anyone else but you need not apologize to me, far as I can tell you did nothing wrong nor hurt my feelings.
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Post by Jim E on Nov 5, 2008 9:32:00 GMT -5
and I would not worry too much, I doubt Obama can f**k it up any worse than any former pres and we made it thru
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Nov 6, 2008 11:38:49 GMT -5
Larry, no apologies needed on my end. If we could not disagree, no need to swap posts telling each other how wonderful we are. All I ask is that we keep it friendly. In other words, we can disagree without being disagreeable. That seems to be something a few people do not seem to be capable of.
If its any consolation, I hold pretty much your thoughts about the conservatives. In general, I feel they usually come up short sighted. All tactics, no strategy, if you will. Also prone to jump to unreasonable conclusions. For instance, the conservatives are convinced Obama will take us straight to Socialism. As near as I can tell, all this comes from his statement about spreading the wealth. Yet I can find nothing in his speeches or official positions that support this, other than the progressive tax code. In fact, one thing he keeps harping on is the need for people to take personal responsibility. I do not see this as something that a "The government will take car of you" Socialist would say. In general, I do not think he is nearly as liberal as most think. That includes his biggest supporter, the dyed in the wool Liberals.
By the way, I have heard the argument that we are the only industrial nation that places the cost of medical care on the employer and it increases the cost of our products on the world market. Socialized medicine would make us more competitive. Would that be good or bad? Please do not come back with the old saw about a beaurocrat deciding what is best for you. We already have them, they are employed by the insurance companies. Only difference is they are paid to increase profits, not determine good health care.
Why are you convinced he is a Socialist?
Bill
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Post by lgurley on Nov 6, 2008 23:19:01 GMT -5
O.K. I'm back. If I haven't offended anyone with my political views then maybe there is still hope for me. As you may have noticed I am highly opinionated. I think most people are but I just let her rip. I didn't want to be on "no speaking" terms with a couple of guys that appear to be the most knowledgeable Sunbeam enthusiast in my country. Bill, most of what you said in your last post appears at face value to be correct. I think that Obama is extremely intelligent and very cunning. The two have been known to be a dangerous combination. I have not knowingly stated that Obama was a Socialist. I think that he is an opportunist and the Republican gave him a great opportunity. I have always been pretty good at reading people and he is hard to read. I once was able to sell a crackerjack sized box with 4 pieces of penny candy, a plastic magnifying glass and a 14 page 2in x 2in black and white comic book (The entire package including the box was $.08) for $5.00 while telling you that since I had never lied to you before you should expect that I am lying to you now. I was d**n good but Obama beats me hands down and you know what? It was only words. Words that work. Charming words that can make you write a check after he has taken all your cash. I do however hope that he succeeds. I will support the duly elected president of my country and he will be MY PRESIDENT. I will not allow myself to judge him before he has done anything wrong. Hopefully he will be good for us. The past is over and it is the way that it is. The following is from an email I sent to my brother while I watched the election returns.
"Dear Rick, It is election night here and all my office personnel and I have voted at least once.Two of them say they voted Republican for the first time because I had explained to them my evaluation of the difference in Conservative and Liberal points of view. The other one took the day off to work at the polling place. I know she voted Republican because she is a racist. That may be a little strong. She is very prejudiced.
I have a strong feeling that the Irishman (O"bama) is going to win. I will be in Bangkok for the Inauguration. Right now they are calling the loss of Republican Senate seats. Looks like we just lost Libby Dole and John Sununu. I think just 5 more and they will have a filibuster proof Senate.
Even though I grew up when integration wasn't popular I can honestly say that I don't have any problem with voting for an Afro American. I do have a problem with voting for a Democrat. I do get a little tired of having to be Politically Correct. Sometimes I slip and tell a joke about how many ?/@# does it take to whatever. I'm 63 so shoot me.
The health care question will have to wait. You can't expect me to solve all the world's problems in one day.
Larry
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Nov 7, 2008 7:14:51 GMT -5
Larry, your statement that you were concerned about keeping private business out the hands of gov't made me think you were on the "Obama is a Socialist bandwagon".
As to him being smart and cunning, I'd have to say that is fine, loads better than what we have, cunning and not terribly bright. We just have to see exactly what Obama's goals really are. That is something we never know for sure when we vote, sometimes not until the guy is almost out of office.
Yes. I'm afraid we lost some good Republicans. John Sununu was one of them. I can't say that about Libby Dole. I think the attack she made on her opponent revealed something about her that was considerably less than honorable. Strange indeed what a person will say and do to be elected. Its also interesting what loosing brings out is some people. McCain's concession was perhaps the best speech of his life, much like Gore's 8 years ago. Why do they wait until they are in the "looser" column before they let us see the real person? In each case, the "looser" was a much more attractive public figure than the candidate.
Bill
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Post by Jim E on Nov 7, 2008 9:29:13 GMT -5
I have always thought the same thing about Mr. Dole, once that election was over he seemed to relaxe and not sure how to put it but he just seemd more genuine.
Good speach on McCains part.,
Obama's speach was just ok. How come his VP was not there with him?
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Post by skywords on Nov 8, 2008 0:08:57 GMT -5
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Nov 8, 2008 8:11:01 GMT -5
Rick, last night Keith said that Joe has been on welfare, not once, but twice. Is against socialism, but will belly up to the bar if he can get freebies. Still owes $1200 in property taxes. Just the kind of hard headed, unthinking, ignorant, lying hypocrite we need. Well, at least that we have plenty of.
Bill
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Post by lgurley on Nov 8, 2008 15:57:00 GMT -5
Rick, last night Keith said that Joe has been on welfare, not once, but twice. Is against socialism, but will belly up to the bar if he can get freebies. Still owes $1200 in property taxes. Just the kind of hard headed, unthinking, ignorant, lying hypocrite we need. Well, at least that we have plenty of. Bill Bill, I know you don't trust Fox News as I don't trust any media outlet but they claim (and I heard Joe say it isn't so) that they investigated and these are unfounded and untrue allegations which started on the Internet. Personally I don't care. I am on social security disability and once when I was a single father with 3 children I received food stamps. I still don't believe either program is right. I considered and do consider that I was just getting a slight reimbursement for the money the government had taken from me without my consent. Here is something I don't understand.--Last year I did not take any dividends from my company but I did have the company repay me for a portion of the money that I loaned it. That is not income so therefore not taxable. The only real income I had was from my disability check. I never got the automatic stimulus check so I called the I.R.S. to see if it was lost in the mail. They told me that I didn't qualify because I didn't earn enough money. I would have thought that low wage earners should have been the number 1 priority of a government stimulus plan. That is O.K. for me because I have money, but it doesn't seem fair to the poor soul that only earned about twice the amount that I pay for medical and pharmacy every month. I just watched the video about Joe and it is easy to see why someone would believe these stories that are on M.S.N.B.C. otherwise known as the Obama network.
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blue
Junior Member
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Post by blue on Nov 8, 2008 18:04:13 GMT -5
Larry, short of going to the Courthouse in question, I suppose there is no way to convince you that Joe is in arrears on his taxes, but I'll try. ABC news has this which contains a quote from a county official: abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=6047360The Telegraph, an U.K. publication, has the same figures on their web site. So either he owes taxes or Fox is the the only news organization that has the story straight. Larry, I personally think that if you are going publicly condemn a practice, you should not receive its benefits. While you do not feel the food stamp program is right, do you have an alternative? If you had not received the food stamps, what would you have done to feed your family? Would you feel better if the county set up a soup line for you? I feel the food stamp program you participated in is a good thing, it has seen some of my relatives through some pretty tough times, just as it did you. I do pissed when I see people abuse the system. I think they deserve free food and LODGING from the state, say about 6 months worth. A while back, I heard an interesting thing on The History Channel. They said our definition "gleaner" in the Biblical sense is not correct. The "gleaners" were the poor who helped themselves to the crops in order to survive. They did not pick up the spilled grain, they harvested what they needed for that days meal. It was expected they would do that. Unfortunately, we call that theft. I understand your point of view of the sillyness of you not receiving the tax rebate. If you want money to circulate, give it to poor people (not that you are poor). They may not spend it wisely, but the WILL spend it. And rather quickly, too. But you should understand, THE CONCEPT OF GIVING MORE TO THE POOR BECAUSE THEY CAN USE IT, IS SOCIALISTIC!!! The Obama network, signing off. Bill
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Post by lgurley on Nov 8, 2008 22:19:57 GMT -5
You call it receiving benefits of a program. I call it taking back what is mine. I could have gotten by without the food stamps. I know I could have because of the odd way in which they calculate benefits. It seems that on months with 5 Fridays I made too much money to qualify. As for Joe the plumber you are probably right that I can't be convinced. Even if it is true it has no bearing on the question he asked and the answer he got. When I first heard that he owed taxes I offered publicly to pay them off and no one has asked me for the money. The same sources said that he owed back child support which is also not true. You mentioned Socialism so many times that I did some research and it appears to me that Socialism is whatever you want it to be. The reverse of that is whatever you don't want to call Socialism isn't. I have not called Obama or any one else a Socialist. The following exert from an article about Socialism is what I base this on, but before I post it I want you to know that I am only doing this to exercise my brain.
"Socialism is not a discrete philosophy of fixed doctrine and program; its branches advocate a degree of social interventionism and economic rationalization, sometimes opposing each other. Another dividing feature of the socialist movement is the split on how a socialist economy should be established between the reformists and the revolutionaries. Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy. Social democrats propose selective nationalization of key national industries in mixed economies combined with tax-funded welfare programs; Libertarian socialism (which includes Socialist Anarchism and Libertarian Marxism) rejects state control and ownership of the economy altogether and advocates direct collective ownership of the means of production via co-operative workers' councils and workplace democracy". If I can't define it then how can I accuse someone of it?
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blue
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by blue on Nov 9, 2008 8:10:08 GMT -5
Larry, I'm somewhat confused. If you care nothing about Joe and do not agree with his his views, why did you offer to pay his taxes or care what the Obama (or at least non fox) media says about him? The Irishman did not put him in the limelight.
Bill
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Post by lgurley on Nov 9, 2008 13:59:10 GMT -5
Larry, I'm somewhat confused. If you care nothing about Joe and do not agree with his his views, why did you offer to pay his taxes or care what the Obama (or at least non fox) media says about him? The Irishman did not put him in the limelight. Bill Do all liberals see what they want to see? Are they blind to the things they don't want to see? I didn't say that I care nothing about Joe or that I do not agree with his views. What I was trying to say was that the question of him owing taxes has no bearing on the validity of the question he asked. I offered to pay the taxes because I didn't think the story was true and that my money was at little risk. It was also a challenge for someone to prove that the allegation was true. Since he asked O'bama the question on the rope line in his town, on his street, in front of his house, it appears to me that O'bama may have accidentally put him in the spotlight. O'bama's answer put Joe in the spot light. Ask "Tito the Builder".
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